That's nonsense. If that's your complaint, you have nothing to worry about. No illegal alien is going to commit knowingly that kind of felony, with or without a driver's license. The risk is way too high, and for what?
Interesting question. The only reason for not allowing driver's licenses is it somehow "rewards" illegal activity. Conservatives are big into punishment, let alone giving "rewards" to criminals. But if you don't look at it as a reward, but something that is good for the rest of us, the calculus changes. We already treat illegal aliens as a different class of criminal. Illegals don’t want to break any other laws, so they will get insurance, take the license tests, and pay all the related fees and taxes. If they don’t, we have higher moral ground for throwing the book at them. It will help dry up the illegal ID market. And it will provide an ID that shows the holder is not a citizen. Those are all good things. I also don’t think it’s a good idea to be cruel to people. An illegal gets his car impounded because he can’t get a license. If we’re not going to have a program of wholesale deportation—and we’re not—then that’s unfair.
You sound like you would excuse or just passively accommodate anything. That's awful! And worse, you would violate the 14th amendment and put citizens and taxpayers last as you endlessly give aid and comfort to law breaking non-citizens and non-taxpayers. Its exactly your kind of excuse making and illogical emotional appeal reasoning that's responsible for the current demise of the United States.
oops hit the wrong button the problem as i see it is simple first we let them apply for a drivers license then lets let them register to vote and then why not let them vote. and as long as we have let them do all that we might as well make them a citizen. and then the liberal socialists that are in power in this state will have a voting base that will keep electing them. And remember they are here illegally and breaking the law. That is the problem i have with letting them have a drivers licenses
Mr.P: I don't know where you draw the line exactly, but voting is on the other side. There is nothing in the US Constitution that prohibits non-citizens from voting, so there's no line there. And, in fact, the US has a history of alien suffrage (I didn't know that until I looked it up just now). But alien suffrage ended in all states during the 1920s. It could come back, but there would have to be a good reason for the eligible citizen voters to allow it. I don't see it ever happening; certainly not anytime soon. It's more likely that there will be a constitutional amendment prohibiting non-citizen voting. That, along with removing the birthright citizenship provision in the 14th Amendment would be a slam dunk if congress ever had the gumption to pass them and send them to the states for ratification. But congress is too dysfunctional for either party to suggest it for fear the other side would play it for political advantage among Hispanic voters. I think that fear is unfounded, but that's the only explanation I have. Whichever party that wants to promote those two changes to the Constitution will have my support. I can't think of any valid arguments to oppose either one.
Look everybody, unless the tea party takes over congress and the presidency, wholesale deportation isn't happening. So all the answers based on that are moot. Get real. The question is what do we do--what do we allow--assuming wholesale deportation is NOT on the table. I see no problem with issuing illegal immigrants driver's licenses. Registering to vote and/or voting by non-citizens (not just illegal immigrants) should be a felony. Laws that effectively disenfranchise lawful voters in the name of stopping voter fraud are a sham and should be understood that way. Anyone in office who advocates disenfranchisement of legal voters, in fact or in effect, should be turned out of office.
Because it's not on the table doesn't mean you don't stop fighting for what you believe in. It needs to be on the table. Even if compromise is the ultimate solution, wholesale deportation needs to be the starting point.
Mr.P: Wholesale deportation is or was the starting point, and it's not happening. So what's next? I say we do things to reduce the incentive to come to the US illegally, but not to be cruel to people who are here. The low-hanging fruit are the constitutional amendments mentioned earlier. We do that first. Or does your "fighting" mean support nothing short of wholesale deportation? That's a formula for paralysis, which is where we are now.
rlw, I am not personally at the table. I don't get a vote in Congress or the state legislature. If I'm going to personally lobby my legislators, I am telling them I prefer a strong border and deportation as the answer. I'll choose candidates accordingly. That's what I believe and I won't compromise what is in my heart. That being said, If that can't be accomplished I want the next best thing which is not providing incentives. Knowing that the can't be deported and knowing they can get a driver's license are incentives. A few months ago I had to take my 87 year old father into emergency at Kaiser. I noticed driving up to emergency a sign that reads, "Open to the Public." He was in severe pain and discomfort. The waiting room was full when we arrived. About half were Hispanic, most with small children. None seemed to have an urgent problem. None were crying and none had obvious injuries or illnesses. After about 4 hours I started wandering how many of them were actually Kaiser members and how many actually were in need of urgent care. Another good question would be how many of them actually end up paying he bill for services? It ended up taking 8 hours to get my father admitted. If we are serious about making health care more affordable for Americans, that might be a good place to start? Google "illegal immigrants health care" and you'll see plenty of documentation about the cost and how it is crippling the health care system in California. This is one of the biggest incentives. In Mexico, prospective illegals can be a tutorial for $50 on how to work the system once they get across the border.
Mr.P: Good anecdote. I wonder if Kaiser members are better off going to Urgent Care instead of Emergency. In my few trips to Emergency, I don't recall that kind of experience. Isn't there a screening nurse who can separate the true emergencies from the rest? Maybe some medical professional can chime in.
For a lesson in receiving instant emergency care, go to the Kaiser in Vallejo. You will see first hand the methods for success. Having said that, I have not experienced those same issues as Mr. Practical. I am sorry you and your dad had to endure that, terrible!
rlw, it was in the evening and I believe Urgent Care is only open in the daytime. My father required several trips to emergency during his illness. He passed away in July. Most were in the evening and the experience was similar each time. It was anywhere from 4 to 8 hours to be admitted. There is a screening nurse that checks you in. She simply gathers the info on why you're there to create a record. Then it's off to the waiting room to wait for your turn. There was another woman there that came in right after us. She was in severe pain and was not taken ahead of anyone else. Many of the others in the waiting room went over to her and her husband to offer support and see if there was anything they could do to help. It's a very sad and frustrating place.
What the State of Californistan has done is an act of treason and Federal Funds need to be cut off now! ''Dear Senator Tim Scott, as your constituent, I'm writing you today about an intolerable situation in California that begs for Federal legislative and court action along with remedy.......''
They became criminals the moment they illegally came across the border. So you do not reward criminal behavior. First step>>>Jail. Second step>>>A ride back home. A longer and longer jail term the next time!!!!! But I do feel differently about the children of those that were brought here when they were very young. It is not THEIR fault. And many if not most of them do not even know they are illegally here.
Practical, I understand what you are sayiing abut their illegal presence here, but I've yet to hear you say anything about the employers who hire them. These illegals also are paying into our tax base and into programs which they will never benefit from, like Social Security.
Hi Jason, hope all is well. I didn't chime in on the employer issue just because it wasn't part of the article or ensuing discussion. The employers that hire them are just as responsible as government for enabling illegal immigration and should be held accountable.