Wednesday, September 17, 2014
FAIRFIELD-SUISUN, CALIFORNIA
99 CENTS

Straw man goes up in flames

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By
From page A8 | February 11, 2013 |

In last week’s Daily Republic, we saw how a false equivalence can be used to make you think that two things, like Fox News and MSNBC, are the same, when they are very different. We also saw how editorial cartoonist, Mike Rodriquez, took part of Hillary Clinton’s sentence out of context and made it seem as though she was saying one thing, when in fact, she was saying something completely different.

Today, let’s talk about men made of straw. Like the Scarecrow from “The Wizard of Oz,” straw men have no brain. In order to convince you something is true, when it is not, propagandists will create an opposing proposition out of straw and then show you how weak and brainless it is.

For example, a couple of weeks ago, Murray Bass wrote a letter to the editor about “my” plan to mint a trillion-dollar coin. Mr. Bass wrote: “What are the consequences of giving valueless coins to foreign and domestic investors in place of interest payments? The same as default. Giving a worthless coin in place of interest payments would damage the dollar beyond repair in world markets. To deny domestic investors would create havoc and would cause widespread business failures and personal financial disasters.”

I totally agree with Murray’s assessment, however, that was not my proposition.

In my column, I wrote: “Economists have proposed that the U.S. Treasury mint several platinum coins, each with a face value of $1 trillion. These coins would then be exchanged, as needed, with the Federal Reserve Banks for $1 trillion worth of their bank notes or bank credits, which the government then spends.” There was never any plan to flip China a trillion-dollar coin as if to say, “Here you go, kid.”

While it may not have been intentional, Murray created his whole scenario entirely out of “straw,” so he could easily knock it down.

Closely related to the straw man fallacy is the ad hominem hit piece or personal attack. Whenever someone has no answer to an opposing proposition, or lacks the mental capacity to formulate one, they can simply “shoot the messenger” or attack the person who put it forth. Calling someone a “pinhead,” for example, instead of refuting his point, is the last station as your mental train of thought runs out of track.

As you can imagine, I’ve been called every name in the book, from a communist to a fascist and usually in the same sentence. It really doesn’t matter that those two terms are at polar ends of the political spectrum, the attackers’ true purpose is to somehow discredit something I’ve written, when they lack factual counterpoints. Professional political propagandists rarely use this form of attack because they quickly learn that it only works on the most gullible audience members and, for everyone else, it reflects worse on the writer then on their intended victim.

Growing up in Fairfield, I would have really appreciated it if my teachers at Armijo and Fairview had shown me how to spot propaganda in the media. I realize it’s difficult to change class plans, but perhaps a few Fairfield teachers could explain how propaganda works, have their classes read the Daily Republic, clip some opinion page articles that use propaganda techniques, and discuss them in class. Please examine my columns for tricks, too. They’re always available on the Daily Republic website.

Do I use facts or propaganda? Also, examine how MSNBC and Fox cover the same news items and compare the two networks. Are they really both the same, or does one use facts and the other propaganda?

Mike Kirchubel grew up in Fairfield and is the author of “Vile Acts of Evil – Banking in America.” He can be reached at mikirch@comcast.net.

Mike Kirchubel

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Discussion | 148 comments

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  • Me thinks thou hast not been called these!February 11, 2013 - 6:12 am

    @ Mike fron StR.......Google...Shakespearean Insulter....So take this...You, minion, are too saucy!.......Away, you bottle-ale rascal, you filthy bung, away!...........Thou cullionly scurvy-valiant blind-worm!........Thou poisonous bunch-back'd toad!(Attention Mr Brad, this was taken from KR3)........Thou qualling dread-bolted flap-dragon! Just kidding..Haveth thou a pleasing diurnal course!

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  • CD BrooksFebruary 11, 2013 - 7:00 am

    Mike, very well done! We had so many years of that behavior and it is nice you are helping those folks in their recovery.

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  • Mike KirchubelFebruary 11, 2013 - 8:08 am

    one step at a time.

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  • Mr. PracticalFebruary 11, 2013 - 10:58 am

    Mike, good to see you are acknowledging that you need a multi-step program. Admitting you have a problem is the first step towards getting better!

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  • Mike KirchubelFebruary 11, 2013 - 11:42 am

    Mr. P, CD said, "it is nice you are helping those folks in their recovery." "Those folks," meaning not me or CD, but you and folks like you who are still battling your propagandic demons. I hope this article helps.

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  • Mr. PracticalFebruary 11, 2013 - 11:51 am

    My joke wouldn't apply if I didn't take your comment out of context. Creative license! BTW... apparently you have me mischaracterized. I have no demons and I do not submit to propaganda. You would need to be more specific.

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  • Mike KirchubelFebruary 11, 2013 - 12:13 pm

    ha. the best propaganda is the kind you don't recognize - the bed-rock truths that do not need to be justified, because they have been foisted for so long, they are considered self-evident.

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  • StRFebruary 11, 2013 - 12:18 pm

    @Mike have you ever read any Darwin?

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  • StRFebruary 11, 2013 - 12:59 pm

    1859 November 22....... "The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection: Or, the Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle for Life" was published by John Murray publishers of London.............1871 early March "The Descent of Man and Selection in Relation to Sex" was published by John Murray publishers of London..........These are the basis of the Eugenics movement....The Bible says thou shalt not kill.........So which propaganda is the best choice?

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  • Mr. PracticalFebruary 11, 2013 - 12:18 pm

    That's a non answer

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  • rlw895February 11, 2013 - 5:58 pm

    Mr. P: Yes, let's all be more specific. Oh, if only we would!

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  • Mr. PracticalFebruary 11, 2013 - 6:03 pm

    No comprende?

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  • rlw895February 11, 2013 - 6:28 pm

    Your 11:51 AM comment. You ask Mike to be more specific, but I don't see anything specific in your comment either.

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  • Mr. PracticalFebruary 11, 2013 - 6:36 pm

    Mike said I had propagandic demons. I can't imagine where he got that and what propaganda he's referring to. I asked for specifics. Not sure where I could have been more specific?

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  • rlw895February 11, 2013 - 7:21 pm

    I was talking about your 10:58 AM comment, which I guess you intended as joke. All too many people seem to do with Mike is make general criticisms, funny or not, without providing any challenges to his facts or examples.

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  • StR...R not these used by Liberals?February 11, 2013 - 9:08 am

    Rules for Radicals, used by both sides.....RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. “Have-Nots” must build power from flesh and blood............... RULE 2: “Never go outside the expertise of your people.” It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone............. RULE 3: “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.” Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty............ RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules............ RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions............. RULE 6: “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.” They’ll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They’re doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones........... RULE 7: “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.” Don’t become old news.......... RULE 8: “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new............ RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist............. RULE 10: "The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition." It is the unceasing pressure that will result in the reaction of the opposition that is essential for the success of the campaign................ RULE 11: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog............. RULE 12: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.” Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem........... RULE 13: “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.................BOTH SIDES ARE BAD DEMOCRAT, extreme liberal and Republican, pretend extreme conservative. WE DO NOT CONTROL OUR OWM GOVERNMENT THE INTERNATIONAL EVIL BANKERS CONTROL IT. Again in actuality we have no real control of "our" government, our country is owned by the Illuminati, we are just a "player" being played on he international NWO chessboard.

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  • Mike KirchubelFebruary 11, 2013 - 12:28 pm

    R those not used by righties?

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  • StRFebruary 11, 2013 - 12:33 pm

    Quote from above...."Rules for Radicals, used by both sides" see I am more intellectually honest...but maybe you have your reasons?........ ....Mr. P if you do not believe that 9/11 was an inside job then you DO BELIEVE PROPAGANDA. So Mr. P was 9/11 an inside job, yes or no?

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  • Mr. PracticalFebruary 11, 2013 - 12:39 pm

    Define "inside job" and define "propaganda."

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  • StRFebruary 11, 2013 - 12:48 pm

    9/11 was done as propaganda that the "Muslims" attacked the US, so that the International Bankers/Bildergers ect....could launch a false war on terror in the mid-east to consolidate control. The insiders were PNAC NEOCONS, Cheney ect(google this), elements of Israeli Mossad, Some Saudi and British Intel assets. If you do not believe this then who do you think did 9/11?

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  • Mr. PracticalFebruary 11, 2013 - 12:51 pm

    If that were true, Oliver Stone would already have the movie rights.

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  • StRFebruary 11, 2013 - 1:07 pm

    Mr. P...are you on a PC?...google ..Shakespearean Insulter....and insult me at random in such a manner. I have forsooth put up w/enough insults to my intelligence and would prefer some random Shakespearean insults ATT (at this time), so copy some and perform posting w/me.

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  • StR...GoodyFebruary 11, 2013 - 1:18 pm

    I will go first...What fun!...Mr. Practical.... Thou art a spleeny hasty-witted bugbear!

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  • StR @ Mr. PracticalFebruary 11, 2013 - 2:57 pm

    Mr. Practical yes, Oh, that way madness lies.........Mr. Practical..Thou think'st 'tis much that this contentious storm... Invades us to the skin: so 'tis to thee, Mr. Practical;.... Is where the greater malady is fix'd,.. The lesser is scarce felt. Mr. Practical'ldst shun a bear;.... But if Mr. P, thy flight lay toward the raging sea,.... Mr. P, Thou'ldst meet the bear i' the mouth.... When the mind's free,.... The body's delicate: the tempest in my mind.... Doth from my senses take all feeling else.... Save what beats there. Filial ingratitude!.... Is it not as this mouth should tear this hand For lifting food to't?.... But I will punish home:.... No, I will weep no more. In such a night.... To shut me out! Pour on; I will endure.... In such a night as this! O Obama, O Bush!.... Your old kind father, whose frank heart gave all,--..... Look not to Mr. Practical O, that way madness lies; let me shun that;..... No more of that Mr. Practical...............I am trying to "feed" you the truth, Yea, biteth not the truth teller.

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  • StR I am getting censored againFebruary 11, 2013 - 9:20 am

    Tune into todays's infowars

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  • StR...What is up w/Reyes syndromeFebruary 11, 2013 - 11:08 am

    When I was a kid I and others always took aspirn? Why has a simple asprin now become so supposedly dangerous to children? What is up w/that?

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  • StR....Resistance is FutileFebruary 11, 2013 - 10:26 am

    1..In Star Trek, part of the standard message used by the Borg when they encounter an alien race they intend to assimilate into their collective....................... 2. As used by Mike Kirchubel?.... Part of the standard message used by the Progressives when they encounter an alien right thinking totally correct and balanced person like StR, that they intend to assimilate into their fascist/commie/progressive collective…………WE ARE THE BORG/KIRCHUBEL. LOWER YOUR SHIELDS AND SURRENDER YOUR PRINCIPLES….. WE WILL ADD YOUR BIOLOGICAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN…YOUR CULTURE WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE……………(Keep performing posting w/me and I may assimilate, I am easily fooled)

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  • StR.....PSFebruary 11, 2013 - 10:54 am

    I am just kidding...But please tell me soon what a progressive is and what the goals of the progressive movement is, as you define it. Thanks

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  • StRFebruary 11, 2013 - 12:13 pm

    Google.... AE911Truth Action Alert ...or Information for Law Enforcement - AE911Truth......It is a letter you can take to your local law enforcement agency which explains the need to be aware of the real events of 9/11 and how this can impact our civil liberties........................ Now we just need one that explains the shooting PSYOPS and MK-ULTRA PSYOPS. Remember local is best, the Federal Government has too much power. Jurisdiction over our lives should be local and not Federal and mandated by force. Power needs to devolve back down to the States and the Counties with in the States. The Federal Gov should only do what is mandated in the Constitution.

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  • StRFebruary 11, 2013 - 12:26 pm

    Everybody should watch this DVD........A Noble Lie: Oklahoma City...... (done on the Clinton Watch term of office...January 20, 1993 – January 20, 2001)........See again same same...Republican/Democrat no difference really...Obama will not save us....EVERYBODY WAKE UP....but Romney would have been no better.

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  • StRFebruary 11, 2013 - 12:41 pm

    wwwwhatistheendgamecom....check this out. The End Game is that they want us all dead.

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  • rlw895February 11, 2013 - 6:34 pm

    StR: Give it a rest, will you? Stop typing and read only for a day or two. No one can get a word in edgewise. And if you must write, limit the words unless it's all really on point and necessary to make your point. We don't need or want to be introduced to a bunch of new stuff here. The subject is methods of propaganda and recoginzing them.

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  • StR @ rlw895February 11, 2013 - 9:50 pm

    Seems to me you get very "long winded" yourself...so take this....RLW Thou art a bootless clapper-clawed horn-beast!.....RLW Thou art a saucy boil-brained popinjay! But inspite of this I wish you peace, good pintpot, peace, good tickle-brain....Haveth thou a pleasing eventide witching hour!

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  • rlw895February 11, 2013 - 10:31 pm

    StR: It's your OFF POINT windiness that is stinking up this site. If I do that, I will beg your pardon. Just let me know.

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  • rlw895February 11, 2013 - 7:00 pm

    Now, ON POINT, I recently encountered the straw man. TC and I agreed to a deal where we would each read a book of the other’s choosing. I was trying to break us out of only reading material with which we generally already agree. I picked “It’s Even Worse Than It Looks: How the American Constitutional System Collided with the New Politics of Extremism” (2012) by Mann and Ornstein. TC picked “Liberty and Tyranny” (2009) by Mark Levin. To answer a question TC posed, I skipped ahead to Levin’s chapter on the Constitution. I found references there to “Statists,” Levin’s bad guys. I thought that odd; not “Liberals?” He was comparing and contrasting these “Statists” with “Conservatives” (his side), and the Conservatives looked pretty good. So, as I go back to start reading from the beginning, I’m looking for the definition Levin uses for “Statist.” Sure enough, there it is on Page 4 (for those of you who are following along). According to Levin, a liberal is not a Statist, because the classical definition of liberal is anti-authoritarian. Who Levin wants to hold up to the mirror next to his “Conservatives” is something else, which he calls a “Modern Liberal.” But I guess that’s too long, so he shortens it to Statist. Now, you see the propaganda trick? He labels his opponents and imbues them with his own definition of characteristics. That’s classic straw man. So he goes through the rest of the book railing against Statists and holding up Conservatives as the other side. But I keep thinking, who are these Statists? They don’t sound like me or anyone I know. The fact is, they are, if not entirely a product of Levin’s imagination, representative of so few Americans, we are all “Conservatives” in comparison. He gets his readers all riled up over nothing. But that’s how he sells books, and, I assume, his radio talk show. I never heard of Mark Levin before, and I doubt I will seek him out now. More on my “book report” later.

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  • Tom ChalkFebruary 11, 2013 - 7:50 pm

    RLW: Thanks for shedding some light on one of the great conservative thinkers of this era. The book you refer to was on the NY Times best seller list for eleven weeks--so I guess we can conclude that many of us buy his main points, but don't see them as your basic "straw man" argument. Levin's academic and real world credentials are more than adequate, but I won't waste time and screen space going into that now. His grasp of United States history is impressive, and I recommend the book, "Liberty and Tyranny" to all progressives/liberals/statists on this site so that you might learn something about your political and philosophical opponents today. I suspect that Obama's speech tomorrow night will provide more than enough counterpoint, and will no doubt set up several straw men to be shredded by his adoring supporters and our treasonous mainstream media over the next few days.

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  • rlw895February 12, 2013 - 12:41 am

    Tom: I'm looking forward to your book report too. I recommend people read samples of all sorts of popular works, fiction or nonfiction, because they influence our culture. But people should know what they're getting into. Popularity means making money, mostly, in this case. It doesn't mean the work is any good, at least as nonfiction. As a wise man said once: "Bestselling does not necessarily mean best writing." Levin is translating his celebrity into money, just like any entertainer might do. It does upset me that guys like Levin have a large audience, because what they are selling divides America. But that’s what builds and keeps their audience, which is how they makes their living. He fashions himself as a leader of the oppressed, and preaches victimhood to make people feel they are oppressed and powerless. Then they come back for more, for another dose of finding out who to blame and reinforcement of their beliefs. Kind of makes me sick. I've already pointed out Levin’s straw man technique in L&T. I can go on, page by page, with other stuff. As far as his expertise, sure he has lots of footnotes, but not to the most respected historians of the period he's writing about. He doesn't misquote, but he misrepresents quotes, starting with the quote from Lincoln of the book jacket, whence he gets his title, "Liberty and Tyranny." It sounds like Lincoln was criticizing people who live off others generally, which today could be construed to agree with the conservative mythology that liberal governments buy votes by "redistributing wealth." But of course Lincoln was talking about slave owners, and how they thought it was tyrannical for the government to threaten to take their property—their slaves—in the name of liberty. To them, liberty was their right to own slaves. Meanwhile the abolitionists thought it tyrannical for someone to hold slaves, and the slaves should be freed in the name of liberty. Lincoln’s point is the words mean different things to different people, and the liberty and tyranny can be used, legitimately, to describe the same thing. Gee, I don't know...who was right about what was tyrannical? If we are to take the quote to support Levin’s thesis, the good guys lost the Civil War. Your great and respected historian Levin doesn't go into that; he just puts the quote on his book cover completely out of context and without real explanation. No one can accuse him of lying because he doesn't actually say what it means. He lets the reader draw his own conclusions, knowing full well what conclusion his particular audience will likely draw. He just throws the raw meat to the lions, knowing they won't ask for it to be prepared medium rare with a Béarnaise sauce.

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  • Tom ChalkFebruary 12, 2013 - 8:04 am

    RLW: I'm guessing you won't be reading any of Levin's other books any time soon. That's ok. Levin's characterization of today's progressive/liberal/ statist (I don't see much difference) must be hard to take, particularly if one identifies oneself as belonging to that group. I admit to procrastination in my reading of "It's Even Worse Than It Looks," and promise to get back on task so I can report my findings.

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  • rlw895February 12, 2013 - 11:15 am

    Tom: Right about me reading more Levin. I won’t be taking up smoking either. But I will read more Levin if you recommend it and are willing to listen to my critique. You do me a service by showing me what you find the best of this popular conservative writing, there's so much of it. Like I said earlier, people should expose themselves to all sorts of writing that is influencing our culture, and with open minds (meaning, having some doubt about their infallibility). We need to know what is influencing our culture so we can do something with it (if we agree) or about it (if we don’t). I’m doing what I can. It’s only hard for me to take Levin’s work because I care about my country, and he is damaging it. And he is damaging it for money.

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  • Tom ChalkFebruary 12, 2013 - 5:29 pm

    RLW: Well there we have it. You believe Levin is damaging our country--I believe Obama is damaging our country. Levin for money and Obama for--what??? No one really knows because the country rushed to elect a man of unknown provenance (when you consider the gravity of the office he was thrust into) with the treasonous assistance of a media, the empty-headedness of some voters and the ineptitude of his opponent. I think the outrageousness of that election is what is behind the amazing show of defiance by conservatives and the GOP. Things will not get better until he is gone, even though we wish it were not so.

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  • Mike kirchubelFebruary 12, 2013 - 5:37 pm

    Wow! Do you really believe any of that? what a tremendous load.

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  • StR @ Mike KirchubelFebruary 12, 2013 - 6:03 pm

    I am starting to assimilate....ask me what I did last night!

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  • Tom ChalkFebruary 12, 2013 - 7:44 pm

    Mike: The DR saw fit to censor my response to your question. Suffice it to say that I brilliantly put you in your place! LOL!

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  • Mike kirchubelFebruary 12, 2013 - 7:54 pm

    Thank you for putting me in my place, at home watching the President give his,state of the union address. I appreciate that, but still, you really believe what you said?

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  • StR @ MikeFebruary 12, 2013 - 7:59 pm

    So ask ME!, what I did last night.

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  • StR....Now on KVIE @this timeFebruary 12, 2013 - 8:05 pm

    A Documentary on the Rockefellers

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  • StRFebruary 12, 2013 - 8:09 pm

    KVIE on channel 6 in Vacaville

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  • StR A good example of propagandaFebruary 12, 2013 - 8:22 pm

    This is a hagiography type of documentary an overall flattering of the Rockefellers.

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  • Tom ChalkFebruary 12, 2013 - 9:09 pm

    Mike: I do believe what I said. You should understand that millions of Americans agree with me re: the tragedy of Obama's election, and share my anxiety for the future of our country. You and many others will most likely never understand why that is true, and people like me will never understand the positions you take most of the time. When LBJ said, "Come, let us reason together," he probably had no idea what his party would foist upon the country in 2008. You and your cohorts here in DR Land don't seem to get it, either. If we still have a republic in 2016, I predict things will improve regardless of which party takes the White House. Why? Because the most divisive, inept president in our history will be out of office.

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  • Mike kirchubelFebruary 12, 2013 - 10:36 pm

    It''s just hard to believe that someone is so tragically misinformed in this era of instant communication. How have you been left so far behind by reality? I have to think that you must go out of your Way to avoid hearing or seeing the truth. A truly Sad commentary on America in the 21st century.

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  • StR @ MikeFebruary 12, 2013 - 10:40 pm

    If you do not ask me what I did last night, I will be compelled to insult you some more.

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  • Mike kirchubelFebruary 12, 2013 - 10:44 pm

    Althougb I enjoy the insults, i'll bite, What did you do?

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  • StRFebruary 12, 2013 - 10:51 pm

    I attended the Northern Solano Democratics club meeting. And they were very nice to me. I met the new President of the NAACP chapter and I congratulate them on having a beautiful and most gracious lady President. I thought the meeting was well conducted. Caveate to my Conservative Peeps, I still do not agree with all liberal stuff, but I like to talk to people, to find areas of agreement.

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  • @ Mike...Peace, ye fat guts!February 12, 2013 - 11:01 pm

    StR.....This was very exciting to me, one of the club members was inviting people to a meeting discussing the establishment of local currencies and the person knew that we should all BARF on the FED!

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  • rlw895February 13, 2013 - 10:59 am

    Oh, Mike, don't encourage her! Take it outside, will you? Or another string. We were doing so well.

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  • StR @ rlw895February 13, 2013 - 11:13 am

    O teach me how I should forget to think!....Thou infectious sheep-biting hugger-mugger!.........Thou dankish tickle-brained canker-blossom!.......Your comments are as a book, where men may read strange matters......Thou villainous dizzy-eyed foot-licker!.....So have a sense of humor and insult me back in Shakespearean manner!

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  • Mr. PracticalFebruary 13, 2013 - 11:35 am

    I'll insult you back in Shakespearean style... Your abundance of meaningless posts sucketh and clutter up my inbox.

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  • It's gonna take a miracle...NOTFebruary 13, 2013 - 12:40 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7Mxtdg752Q

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  • Sir VesaFebruary 13, 2013 - 1:20 pm

    Yea, verily. It seemeth the maiden doth protest (i.e., comment) too much. Zounds!

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  • StRFebruary 13, 2013 - 1:56 pm

    Truth be told, I am getting really tired of me, myself...... BUT everyone is so truly lost..... Maybe I will limit myself to 3 comments a day 4 a while......Life is as tedious as a twice-told tale... Vexing the dull ear of a drowsy man. BUT...In peace there's nothing so becomes a man As modest stillness and humility;....... But when the blast of war blows in our ears, Then imitate the action of the tiger: Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood......... Verily I retreat to fight another day in a less insistent manner.

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  • rlw895February 13, 2013 - 10:26 pm

    StR: Thanks. Confession is good for the soul.

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  • rlw895February 13, 2013 - 10:43 am

    Tom: I understand, I think, what you believe and feel. What I don’t understand is why. It’s so different from what I believe and feel. We are both intelligent people who, as Americans, share many more values than we don’t. I believe people who have the same values and are presented with the same facts will come to the same conclusions. Somewhere in that process we are diverting from each other. There is some value we don’t share or some set of facts that we don’t share or have wrong. I’d like to bore down into it and figure it out. I tend to think it’s a fact problem. I’ve painted the view of what I think about guys like Levin, and I can back it up with a factual critique of his book. Did you read the Lincoln quote in context? Does that start you maybe doubting some of Levin’s work? Isn’t his use of a straw man clear to you? I seriously mean it when I say I’m not what Levin calls a Statist, and neither is Mike, I’ll wager. Yet Levin wants you to think we are, and a lot of other people too. It’s not that simple. Isn’t it obvious that he profits, financially, from creating this false dichotomy and maintaining conflict among our citizens? In such a case, might not an author not really care about the damage he is doing to the country? You need more convincing. OK, back to my book report. On Page 17, Levin finally gets around to showing us a living example of what he says is a Statist. Naturally, it’s President Obama, who would have to be the lead Statist in this country invested with them. Now, Levin is writing in the 2009 period, so Obama is just in office. Levin is making the point that a Statist wants an all-powerful government to make people equal economically and create a Statist utopia. The then says “President Obama made this point when lecturing the Wesleyan University graduating class of 2008 during the campaign: ‘[Our] individual salvation depends on our collective salvation.’ But salvation is not government’s to give….” So I am immediately thinking, what is the context of that quote? Does it support Levin’s interpretation? The 2008 Wesleyan speech is available online at Wesleyan.edu if you Google for it. Read it and see if you agree with what Levin says. I did, and it’s so obvious it does not, I have to conclude Levin knows too. He presents the quote out of context to deceive a reader who is not likely to doubt him and check. Obama is NOT a Statist by any stretch of the imagination. Well, maybe that’s going too far…by even the most superficial examination of the facts. Now, if Levin were to insert the word “Communist” for “Statist” throughout his book, it would be pretty accurate, except when he is talking about real people. Like I said, a very small fraction of Americans might be called Levin’s Statist, certainly not our president.

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  • StR @ rlw895February 13, 2013 - 10:58 am

    First this note...Yes, Yes, Yes People stock up on food now and buy a gun.......Now RLW.... How about my premise that our Presidents of the United States are actually chosen by the Bilderbergs, the New World Order Globalists. Why is this not a practical theorem to take into consideration. Again I state that both sides Democrat and Republican at the top (always) working down to county and city level (sometimes) work toward a one world government. WAKE UP PEOPLE ALL THE TOP POLITICIANS ARE LYING TO US. The State of the Union Speech by Clinton, Bushes I & II, and the one last night by President Obama are all propaganda to condition us to accept steps toward the New World Order. So RLW is it not prudent to at least consider this? That both sides are controlled by sinister forces? Read the book Strategic Relocation available at infowars.

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  • rlw895February 13, 2013 - 10:16 pm

    StR: The trouble with conspiracy theories is they can’t be disproven to the true believer. No matter how improbable they may be, some people will always believe in them. The least probable are simple the most secret, the most sinister. The fact that there are a lot of “dots” out there that could be connected to create a picture doesn’t mean there is a picture. I choose to live in the world of probabilities.

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  • Tom ChalkFebruary 13, 2013 - 1:42 pm

    RLW: I, too, marvel at the way the decent folks on this website can be so diametrically opposed in their viewpoints. I will only venture to propose that the conservative element here reacts from a deep gut-level antipathy for what Obama and his administration are laying out., and the way they are doing it--i.e., the President's all out, pedal to the metal assault last evening on America's capitalist, free enterprise system of living a decent life here. Big government is his mantra, "social justice" or else, is his battle cry. For example, it is either blatant cynicism or outright stupidity to demand an increase in the minimum wage in America while businesses are struggling to stay afloat in Obama's economy. Not to mention that little program known as the ACA. I have some comments on your appraisal of "Liberty and Tyranny," as well as what I think of your book, but this is starting to push the word count limit of reasonable proportion for this website.

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  • rlw895February 17, 2013 - 2:18 am

    Tom: Is what the Republicans in the Senate are doing with the Hagel nomination "reasoning together?" The "party of NO" is at it again. I imagine Obama has done some things that have been devisive, but he's gotten it back 100-fold.

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  • Tom ChalkFebruary 17, 2013 - 2:17 pm

    RLW: the party of "No" would not be at it again on the Hagel nomination if Obama and Hillary et al, had not been so busy lying about Benghazi just to gain political cover until the election. Yeah, yeah, I know--what cover up?

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  • rlw895February 17, 2013 - 5:08 pm

    Tom: No, I said before it was a lie or a coverup or whatever you want to call it. So Obama et al. won't play the opposition's game and own up to it. So what? The Republicans have a hissy fit and take their ball home, meanwhile trying to gain maximum political points at Hagel's expense. The guy had nothing to do with Benghazi. There's some "reasoning together" for you! Are there any adults in that room?? Maybe a few, but the children are running the show. Tell them to grow up and stop doing stupid stuff like holding up a nomination they admit they will pass anyway. Or filibustering every bill. Or refusing to raise the debt limit. We're the laughingstock of the world, and trust me, it's not because of Obama. Or don't trust me and do your own research. Do you know anyone who has travelled overseas and heard from the natives who follow such things that they think Republicans are the adults and Obama is the kid?

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  • rlw895February 14, 2013 - 12:26 am

    Tom: Right, Obama is damaging the country for...what? You can’t say, can you? An alternative viewpoint is he is doing his best in a difficult situation, motivated only by patriotism and the fact that so many people have put their faith in him. He's doing his job because it IS his job. If he is damaging the country it is out there for all to see. And what I see, instead, is a Republican Party that has no interest in the country anymore, only serving its wealthy masters. They survive on the filibuster and gerrymandering, both abuses of our system of government. You defend them on a vague notion that Obama is just plain bad. But you keep putting off being specific. Republicans put the worst possible spin on everything Obama says or does, and question his motives to boot, and you seem to follow along. It is a party bankrupt of ideas because it has to hide its real agenda, which is to preserve and enhance the income and wealth of the very small fraction of Americans who keep them afloat financially. All the Republicans with ideas have become Democrats. But you just keep on believing what you want, despite the dearth of evidence. How is it working for you? The millions who open their wallets to guys like Levin are countered by tens of millions of people who are beginning to realize the only way to move the country forward is to elect a Democrat as president, give them a majority in the House, and either elect 60 Democratic senators or get rid of cloture rule abuses. If things keep going as they are, we will get that sooner or later. I would prefer a Republican Party with at least a few moderates in office who can truly “reason together” with the Democrats, but if that isn’t going to happen, I’m going to hope for that Democratic takeover.

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  • Tom ChalkFebruary 14, 2013 - 8:01 am

    RLW: I think I explained my theory on Obama's motivation in my 1:42 pm post of 2/13. And, yes, the GOP seems to have lost its way in recent years. There will be a "shake-out" in the party and the ship will be righted down the road. Politicians and ideas come and go (Mann and Ornstein). It's too bad the disintegration of the GOP had to coincide with Obama's election. And, no, I DON'T see that as cause and effect. Just incredibly bad news for America.

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  • rlw895February 14, 2013 - 11:08 am

    Tom: I was replying to your 2/12 8:29 PM comment. There were a lot of intervening comments, and one of the problems with the new DR system is it doesn't "nest" comments enough so you can keep track of who is responding to whom. I thought the same thing when I scrolled down and saw your later comment and where my got placed. Response on your specifics pending...

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  • rlw895February 14, 2013 - 11:09 am

    Tom: That was your 5:29 PM post. The DR is not responsible for my typos;-)!

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  • rlw895February 14, 2013 - 10:19 pm

    I'm no longer able to post. This is a test.

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  • rlw895February 14, 2013 - 10:33 pm

    Tom: Economists argue all the time about the minimum wage and whether it helps or hurts the economy, so it’s not as bad a proposal as you say. It’s that visceral reaction to Obama in general that is at work in you and others.

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  • rlw895February 14, 2013 - 10:36 pm

    Tom: Raising the minimum wage a bit of a moot point at present, because the Republican House isn't pressed to pass it, so it was sort of a freebie, politically, for Obama to offer. But I think he would sign it if it passed. I tend to think a McDonalds and the like, which is the type of business where minimum wage is important, would just raise its product prices a little, knowing the competition will have to do the same, and just keep on going. No layoffs. The added pay comes out of the pockets of people who buy from places that have a lot of minimum wage workers. Maybe a little out of profit too.

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  • rlw895February 14, 2013 - 10:42 pm

    Check the Internet for some history of the minimum wage. Both Republican and Democratic presidents have raised the minimum wage, though Democrats more than Republicans. In real dollars the minimum wage has been much higher than it is now. It took a precipitous decline during the Reagan and Bush II years. Obama is not proposing anything we haven’t done before.

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  • Mike KirchubelFebruary 15, 2013 - 2:46 pm

    yeah, but since Obama mentioned it, it must be some sort of fascist-communist plot. One topic that is not usually discussed is the effect on our national economy of overpaying the bosses. Maybe what we need is not so much an adjustment to the minimum wage law, but a maximum wage law....

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  • Mr. PracticalFebruary 15, 2013 - 3:07 pm

    I have to believe your suggestion of a "maximum wage" is simply an attempt to evoke a reaction. No one, not even you, could believe that would be a good idea.

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  • rlw895February 17, 2013 - 12:44 am

    Mr. P & Mike: Yet one of the biggest fundamental problems we have today is income disparity. No one, even Mike I presume, is proposing a maximum income, but we do propose a more progressive tax system, which is a nod in that direction. Instead of limiting income though, that idea simply plows money back into the overall national welfare from our higher income people. It should be part of the "deal" of making your fortune here.

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  • StR @ Fat GutsFebruary 15, 2013 - 3:38 pm

    Atually U R quite svelte. Obama works for the globalists also, so ultimately it is a Luciferian, Illuminati plot.

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  • rlw895February 15, 2013 - 11:53 pm

    Tom: Final installment. Let's see if it sends: As for the Republican’s “righting their ship,” I don’t see it happening soon. It’s at least one more election away. Too bad for the country. I agree with you about cause and effect and Obama’s election in 2008, but not in 2012. You probably feel about Romney what I felt about Kerry—he blew it. But that’s a false equivalence;-)! Next on my book report: Once Levin brings up “Statist” Obama, he has to start taking on academics, Hollywood, and the media, which all seemed to favor him. He does so on Pages 18-21. It’s a vast left-wing, pro-authoritarian, Statist conspiracy, we are supposed to believe. But a more probable explanation is they are better informed and educated people than average (more “virtuous”), and they choose to act on that.

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  • Tom ChalkFebruary 16, 2013 - 8:01 am

    RLW: Here's what comes down to: Your "virtuous" society is full of less-than-virtuous folks on all levels of the poiltical spectrum. Did Levin take on Hollywood or the liberal educators in our universities wrongly? Are they virtuous people? I think there are several reasons to agree with him on that, and other matters. Is Obama not a big-government liberal (statist in Levin's lexicon)? As for the Mann and Ornstein book, thanks for providing it. I did not enjoy reading most of it, but I have a better picture of how the GOP has gone astray as a political entity. This will be rectified in a few years, nonetheless. We just need to somehow survive Obama's second term of office. Then, even another Dem president will probably look good, should one be elected (unless it's Hillary). LOL!

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  • CD BrooksFebruary 16, 2013 - 8:32 am

    Good morning Mr. Chalk! I have been watching Rubio gaining support through GOP and the media. The whole water thing was as usual, hype and over the top with very little meaning. It was obvious the man was nervous and anxious to get his response over with. I'm guessing he is the "next best thing" and being groomed to run. The next step is a viable choice for VP. In the current climate, he may well have a chance but still a little early yet. Everything that happens between now and the 2014 midterm elections will be a huge factor in determining where the Republican Party is headed. I don't believe Hillary will run so that leaves the Democrats pretty much wide open. Curious about your thoughts?

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  • CD U R A Curious 1 - Emblem 3 LyricsFebruary 16, 2013 - 8:52 am

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkBaICDtP8E

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  • Tom ChalkFebruary 16, 2013 - 11:46 am

    CD: You are right. It is way too soon to know how the GOP will evolve or if Rubio will make it through the Dem political shredding machine now that he has emerged as a possible threat. Other GOP candidates will be smart to keep their heads down as long as possible to avoid unwanted attention from the left (media included). I look forward to the next election cycles.

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  • rlw895February 17, 2013 - 9:44 pm

    Tom: Part i: What it comes down to is for a republic to survive, it has to have enough virtuous people to counter those who are not, or at least who come up short. It’s always like that, more or less. And yes, it seems to be touch and go for us right now. Just because we’ve survived in the past doesn’t mean we will in the future. People take our government for granted. Some think it’s a basic necessity, some think it’s evil. But people all over the spectrum take it for granted. That’s not virtuous.

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  • rlw895February 17, 2013 - 9:48 pm

    Tom: Part 2: You still have not checked out the out-of-context quotes I noted? I sort of expected you to skip ahead to my point about Levin and Hollywood, the media, and academics. The Hollywood and media complaints are rote for Republicans and Conservatives now. They routinely disparage people for who they are, not for what they are saying or doing. Obama is a prime example; go back and read some of your own comments. You have very little specific; it’s “Obama is bad and a lot of people agree with me.”

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  • rlw895February 17, 2013 - 9:54 pm

    Tom: Part 3: But I give Levin credit for at least trying to explain why these classes of people (Hollywood, et al.) are wrong. None of it holds up, but the explanation about “academics” is particularly interesting. Note Levin is not complaining about “liberal” academics. That’s a circular argument: Who are liberal academics? People you don’t agree with. Why don’t you agree with them? Because they are liberal. Levin breaks out of that circle, and here’s what he says on Page 19: “The Statist must also rely on legions of academics to serve as his missionaries. After a short period of training and observation, academics receive a sinecure—a personal stake in the state via lifetime employment through a system of tenure. The classroom is turned into a propaganda mill, rather than a place for education, to shape the beliefs and attitudes of successive generations of malcontents and incubate the quiet revolution against the civil society. Academics help identify the enemies of the state, whom their students learn to distrust or even detest through distortion and repetition—corporations as polluters, the Founding Fathers as slave owners, the military as imperialist, etc.” It goes on, but that’s enough. What the heck is he talking about? The USSR? Maoist China? Nazi Germany? I’m sure they all felt the same about educational institutions, which is why they controlled them, not to produce “malcontents,” but to indoctrinate FOR the status quo.

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  • rlw895February 17, 2013 - 10:04 pm

    Tom: Part 3: But I give Levin credit for at least trying to explain why these classes of people (Hollywood, et al.) are wrong. None of it holds up, but the explanation about “academics” is particularly interesting. Note Levin is not complaining about “liberal” academics. That’s a circular argument: Who are liberal academics? People you don’t agree with. Why don’t you agree with them? Because they are liberal. Levin breaks out of that circle.

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  • rlw895February 17, 2013 - 10:12 pm

    Tom: Part 4: Here’s what Levin says on Page 19: “The Statist must also rely on legions of academics to serve as his missionaries. After a short period of training and observation, academics receive a sinecure—a personal stake in the state via lifetime employment through a system of tenure. The classroom is turned into a propaganda mill, rather than a place for education, to shape the beliefs and attitudes of successive generations of malcontents and incubate the quiet revolution against the civil society. Academics help identify the enemies of the state, whom their students learn to distrust or even detest through distortion and repetition—corporations as polluters, the Founding Fathers as slave owners, the military as imperialist, etc.” It goes on, but that’s enough.

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  • rlw895February 17, 2013 - 10:20 pm

    Tom: Part 5: What the heck is Levin talking about? The USSR? Maoist China? Nazi Germany? I’m sure they all felt the same about educational institutions, which is why they controlled them, not to produce “malcontents,” but to indoctrinate FOR the status quo. I’ve had a lot of education in the USA, and what Levin is writing about I don’t recognize.

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  • rlw895February 17, 2013 - 10:25 pm

    Tom: Part 5: What the heck is Levin talking about? The USSR? Maoist China? The Third Reich? I’m sure they all felt the same about educational institutions, which is why they controlled them, not to produce “malcontents,” but to indoctrinate FOR the status quo. I’ve had a lot of education in the USA, and what Levin is writing about I don’t recognize.

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  • rlw895February 17, 2013 - 10:28 pm

    Tom: Part 6 (and final!): If we are to believe Levin, most if not all of our education system, public, private, El-Hi, college, graduate, post-graduate, is part of some conspiracy orchestrated by “Statists” to train “malcontents” to take on the “civil state” (Levin’s ideal). Or maybe it’s the Statist government using education to preserve itself. I really can’t tell. I guess it depends on who is in power at the time: Academics switch back and forth from training foot-soldiers when the Statists are in power and “malcontents” when they are not. Sheash, this is a conspiracy theory on steroids! When I see that, I always ask, is there a more probable explanation? I think there is: Teachers simply teach what they think is true, or at least try to. Some, not all, are protected by tenure so they can have academic freedom and NOT feel compelled to teach what higher-ups demand. The result is a hodgepodge of liberal, conservative, politically neutral teaching. In other words, teaching that promotes free thinking and freedom. It’s what we WANT. It’s not credible for Levin to generalize about “academics” as some sort of monolith. Not in this country. You of all people must know that working with teachers is like herding cats. Academic freedom is one of our greatest gifts to the world, and one of what Thomas Friedman calls our “weapons of mass attraction” that have helped us to dominate the world culturally. Levin would take that away from us. I’ve already said why. Nothing is sacred to him in reaching his goal.

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  • Tom ChalkFebruary 18, 2013 - 2:52 am

    RLW: You did a great job of analyzing Levin's writing, but we see it differently. I think what I see is his tendency to somewhat overstate in order to make his case. In the matter of higher education, I still agree with him. The "halls of ivy" have, for the most part, become a refuge for liberal professors who insist upon indoctrinating students to their point of view. Students often find it necessary to hide any conservative notions they might wish to express just to receive a passing grade. These "professors" may be the true malcontents. Perhaps Levin missed the mark in assigning that label. And, no, it's not a conspiracy--it's a disease which cripples our nation to a degree.

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  • rlw895February 18, 2013 - 4:02 pm

    Tom: Sorry about all the repetitive posts, but you know the problem. OK, I'll take "overstates." If you want to limit the observation to some higher education teachers, OK, I'll take that too (if you exclude the conservative colleges that probably go the other way). It's well known that more education tends to make a person more liberal, so one would expect to find liberal professors, as a general rule. But as for them intimidating conservatives and grading them down for expressing themselves, I don't think that's common. Grading them down for not expressing themselves well or persuasively, now that I can believe. If those students rely on writers/thinkers like Levin, they deserve to be graded down. You shouldn't cite as authority a writer who "overstates," or if you do, you should find corroborating sources of a nonpartisan bent, say Gordon Wood for 18th and early 19th century American history.

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  • Tom ChalkFebruary 18, 2013 - 4:58 pm

    RLW: As for liberal professors exercising thought control in the classrooms designed to accomodate freedom of ideas and their exchange, I was not using Levin as my only source if information. That is old news.

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  • rlw895February 20, 2013 - 8:37 pm

    Tome: Tell me more. This is not about teachers being "denied the right" to teach creationism in science classes, is it?

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  • Tom ChalkFebruary 21, 2013 - 8:40 am

    RLW: The creationism thing did not enter my mind. You can find stuff on Google that supports what I have read and heard about for years re: conservative students on college campuses being discriminated against. As to the Lincoln quote, I have not followed up on it, yet. I need to go back and review what Levin said first. But I am willing to acknowledge that you might be right about it. We should probably grab a cup at Starbucks some morning and return the books. What say you?

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  • rlw895February 22, 2013 - 10:59 pm

    But I'm only through Chapter 5! I've only gone through the first two chapters here so far. Here's a nutshell criticism of Chapters 3-5. Chapter 3: “On Faith and the Founding.” It’s not too bad until Levin gets to “For the Statist…the Declaration is an impediment to his schemes” (Page 29). The fact is the Declaration was an impediment to governing generally, hence the Constitution. Levin has to include the Framers of the Constitution as “Statists” to make his argument stand up. He doesn’t and they weren’t, so his argument falls. Chapter 4: “On the Constitution.” Apparently Levin has written a whole book (“Men in Black”) disrespecting the Supreme Court. This chapter must by a summary. On the other hand, if you are willing to give the Court the authority to interpret the Constitution, you have to accept the finality of its decisions. I conclude, if Levin doesn’t trust our system of law-making, what does he propose? A court appointed by Levin? That’s basically where he ends up. Round file it. Chapter 5: “On Federalism.” Levin goes off the rails early when he states one of the main purposes of our federal system is to “help ensure that the Revolution’s principles, as set for in the Declaration of Independence…would be safeguarded.” That’s just plain ahistorical. The Constitutional Convention of 1787 is sometimes referred to as the “Second Revolution” because it took the nation AWAY from the principles of the Declaration. The other major flaw is Levin ignores the effect of the Civil War and the 14th Amendment had on federalism as originally conceived. He strains his historical interpretations to set up his straw man “Statist” as a depriver of state’s rights. I have pages of detailed margin notes, but those are the high points.

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  • Tom ChalkFebruary 23, 2013 - 7:38 am

    RLW: You are having WAY too much fun with this, and I do not have enough in-depth knowledge in this area to debate it with you (unfortunately), so maybe I will contact Levin and tell him he has a problem right here in Fairfield. If he agrees to come to town for the duel, you guys could debate each other, and I will buy the coffee. Deal?

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  • rlw895February 23, 2013 - 11:21 am

    Like Herb Caen, I'm a writer, not a talker, though I don't profess by that to be as good a writer as Caen. But if you and Levin are buds, sure, bring him over;-). Chapter 6, "On the Free Market," is pretty long. It's going to take me a while to slog through it. We get a hint that Levin's straw man "Statist" is actually a Marxist, so that rules out most Amerincans and most liberal Americans too. Like I said before, we're ALL Conservitives compared to Levin's straw man. It will be interesting if he becomes less abstract and names another real-life Statist. Marx was one, but he's dead. Oh, and I guess Franklin Roosevelt too.

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  • rlw895February 14, 2013 - 10:44 pm

    I tried breaking my post into smaller bites, and that worked for a while. Now stuck again.

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  • rlw895February 14, 2013 - 10:49 pm

    Tom: Both Republican and Democratic presidents have raised the minimum wage, though Democrats more than Republicans. In real dollars the minimum wage has been much higher than it is now. It took a precipitous decline during the Reagan and Bush II years. Obama is not proposing anything we haven’t done before.

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  • Mr. PracticalFebruary 15, 2013 - 8:10 am

    rlw, the proposal is to raise the minimum wage more than just a bit. It's a 24% increase over 3 years. That's a huge increase. Don't forget that it also increases what the employer pays for SSI, UI, etc... While raising prices to compensate for increased labor costs is an option, it's not how most businesses think. If supply costs increase, than prices will go up across the board. If labor costs increase, businesses tend to deal with it within the labor section of the P&L. Your suggestion that an entire industry would increase prices figuring everyone else would isn't reality either. Even if it happened, as soon as a few a couple of major players saw an opportunity to lower prices and gain market share, the industry would follow suit.

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  • CD BrooksFebruary 15, 2013 - 8:41 am

    I don't like any discussions that raise the minimum wage because I believe it hurts small business due to forcing expenditures up that in turn, cost everyone. I also don't believe that the minimum wage was ever intended to be a living wage and should not be considered as such. In fact, I believe that wage should be turned back to possibly $5.00 an hour. That is a fair salary for young people entering the work force. It would also give business owners some room for allowances like insurance, raises, benefits, etc. The higher basic salaries have literally stolen these once “menial” positions and forced young folks out of jobs. Working two jobs is tough and for a combined $16-$18 bucks an hour, somebody can do ok. But it just doesn’t seem right to me.

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  • rlw895February 16, 2013 - 12:08 am

    CD: Forget $5/hour. Forget a "living wage." What about tying the federal minimum wage to the poverty level? What percent should it be?

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  • CD BrooksFebruary 16, 2013 - 6:40 am

    rlw895, I'm sorry I don't really understand your question? If you're asking if it should be a fluctuating scale, my opinion would be no. If it is an established number, that enables everybody going in to plan accordingly. If that number is too high, we end up here. So I’m saying there must be a happy medium.

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  • rlw895February 17, 2013 - 2:05 am

    CD & Mr. P: What I’m saying is I’m tired of the minimum wage being a political football. Republicans tend to freeze it, and Democrats try to catch up when they can, subjecting them to criticism of the type you are making. In a Nation of Virtue, we shouldn’t stand for that. We should demand that the minimum wage be set base on some sort of principle we agree upon, and then move on to other, more pressing, topics to argue about. The principle I propose to use is the poverty scale. The minimum wage should be what an hourly wage would have to be for a full-time worker to reach some point on the poverty scale. I’m not saying that point would be 100%; it should be less than that. But how much less? 50%? I’m more inclined to something like 10-25% less. Using that principle, the highest the minimum wage ever was was 90%, in 1968. It seems like neither party is interested in poverty anymore. That’s a testament to the rightward lurch of the Republicans; the Democrats don’t have to have an anti-poverty blank; they can focus more attention on winning over the middle class. I would not necessary propose that the minimum wage be automatically indexed to the poverty scale, though I wouldn’t object to that. It could be that the minimum wage is set by congress whenever it wishes, as now. All I am saying is We the People should have an expectation that congress would act in a principled way and stop the politics over this issue. And if they refuse, we should hold them accountable at the polls. Now, can’t we all agree on that?

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  • rlw895February 18, 2013 - 3:49 pm

    Tom: The only thing you said about motives in that post was that Obama wanted "social justice." That can mean different things, but I presume you mean Obama is a socialist, despite all evidence to the contrary. There are programs in the U.S. that have socialist elements, but we are not a socialist nation and people who support those programs are not socialists. But that depends on how you define socialist. If someone likes our Social Security system, you might call him a socialist, but then most Americans would be socialists, and the definition fails to have any significant meaning.

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  • Mike KirchubelFebruary 12, 2013 - 8:56 am

    RLW, one of my favorite Lincoln quotes - and today seems like a good day to quote him - is: “The shepherd drives the wolf from the sheep – for which the sheep thanks the shepherd as his liberator, while the wolf denounces him for the same act as the destroyer of liberty. Plainly, the sheep and the wolf are not agreed upon the definition of liberty.” – Abraham Lincoln. I use the quote twice in my book. He seems to be talking about slaves and owners, but I suggest that it could also be used to describe the rise of the corporations (wolves) with government (the good shepherd) protecting us defenseless little lambs.

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  • Mike KirchubelFebruary 12, 2013 - 9:06 am

    I used it tied to Franklin Roosevelt's, “The only sure bulwark of continuing liberty is a government strong enough to protect the interests of the people, and a people strong enough and well enough informed to maintain its sovereign control over the government.” – Franklin D. Roosevelt. Taken together, they produce a powerful message on one of the main purposes of government - To ensure we all maintain our national (God-given?) rights, no matter how low or mighty one's station.

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  • rlw895February 12, 2013 - 10:47 am

    Mike: Right! Lincoln's "shepherd" quote is from the same speech! It's not hard to find in online. Tom, do me a favor and spend a few minutes reading the Lincoln speech so you understand the full context of the quote Levin pulls out, then tell me whether you think Levin misuses Lincoln's words or not. Note that Levin quotes a lot of dead people who can't take him to task for misrepresenting them, and he quotes a lot of historians and writers who agree with him, not the ones who really are renowned for the subject matter, such as the history of our founding.

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  • rlw895February 20, 2013 - 8:49 pm

    Tom: About the Lincoln quote...are you going to check it out? Or have you already?

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  • StR...Yale Whiffenpoofs poor little lambsFebruary 12, 2013 - 5:55 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJVUTHLFdQ0

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  • Mike kirchubelFebruary 12, 2013 - 7:40 pm

    Marco Rubio's speech after the state of the union is a perfect example of straw Man propaganda. He says that Obama did this or that And then says it is wrong And he's agaibst it..

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  • rlw895February 13, 2013 - 10:56 am

    Straw man, false equivalency, fearmongering, words taken out of context...a Nation of Virtue needs to be able to recognize those tricks if it is going to be a successful republic. The Founders were worried about that, which is why we have a republic and not a pure democracy. But the democratic republic we've evolved into requires almost the same level of vigilence and what Enlightenment thinkers called Virtue.

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  • Mike kirchubelFebruary 12, 2013 - 7:40 pm

    Marco Rubio's speech after the state of the union is a perfect example of straw Man propaganda. He says that Obama did this or that And then says it is wrong And he's aga

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  • StR The times they are a changinFebruary 12, 2013 - 7:50 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vkqf547rk0

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  • StR LyricsFebruary 12, 2013 - 7:56 pm

    Come gather 'round people... Wherever you roam... And admit that the waters... Around you have grown... And accept it that soon... You'll be drenched to the bone... If your time to you... Is worth savin'... Then you better start swimmin'... Or you'll sink like a stone... For the times they are a-changin'. ................. Come writers and critics... Who prophesize with your pen... And keep your eyes wide... The chance won't come again... And don't speak too soon... For the wheel's still in spin... And there's no tellin' who... That it's namin'... For the loser now... Will be later to win... For the times they are a-changin'............ Come senators, congressmen... Please heed the call... Don't stand in the doorway... Don't block up the hall... For he that gets hurt... Will be he who has stalled... There's a battle outside... And it is ragin'... It'll soon shake your windows... And rattle your walls... For the times they are a-changin'............ Come mothers and fathers... Throughout the land... And don't criticize... What you can't understand... Your sons and your daughters... Are beyond your command... Your old road is... Rapidly agin'... Please get out of the new one... If you can't lend your hand... For the times they are a-changin'............ The line it is drawn... The curse it is cast... The slow one now... Will later be fast... As the present now... Will later be past... The order is... Rapidly fadin'... And the first one now... Will later be last... For the times they are a-changin'.

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  • StR Solano County Taxpayers AssociationFebruary 12, 2013 - 9:35 pm

    The Solano County Taxpayers Association will meet tomorrow (Wednesday), at Bud’s Pub & Grill...100 S. First Street...Dixon, CA...13 February 2013...6:30 p.m. The topic will be the Solano 360 project. All are invited to attend.

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  • StRFebruary 12, 2013 - 9:37 pm

    On the Tuesday, February 12 edition of the Alex Jones Show, Alex continues to break down the frenzied search for Chris Dorner which has thus far led LAPD to fire on innocent citizens and the constitutionally-questionable mobilization of spy drones to aid in his capture. Alex also reports on Pope Benedict XVI's resignation, and also continues covering the push for stricter gun control and the dire U.S. financial situation. On today's show, Alex welcomes English writer and journalist David Icke to discuss recent studies speculating on the possibly-contrived nature of reality and the idea that the universe could in fact be one large computer simulation. Alex will also hit on other important news items and take your calls.

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  • How Great Thou ArtFebruary 13, 2013 - 7:02 am

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc0QVWzCv9k

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  • StR Second tryFebruary 13, 2013 - 8:58 am

    Please post...Please Post...This guy was just on Armstrong and Gettey KSTE - 650 AM (this is much better to listen to then Sussman and Morgan, who in my opinon were propaganda cheerleaders for the Iraq war - See the book American Mourning) anyway check out wwwhjtaorg......Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association...California Commentary The Shameful History of Parcel Taxes by February 10, 2013....By Jon Coupal Beware of our Democrat controlled California Legislature and future hikes in taxes. Don't give out the goodies if you can not pay for them, no more borrowing to paper over debt is good, but do we need to be spending the money in the first place. Are our tax dollars being wasted? Let's reduce the waste first.

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  • StR Get this DVDFebruary 13, 2013 - 9:09 am

    DVD..Waco - The Rules of Engagement (1997)........... What happened at the Branch Davidian compound in Mt. Carmel, Texas, in 1993? Why did 4 federal agents and 86 civilians lose their lives? The powerful documentary Waco: The Rules of Engagement asks these and many other difficult questions, and the answers are deeply disturbing, even for the most cynical. Using interviews, news footage, testimony before Congress, and infrared photographic analysis, the film relentlessly chips away at the government's story that David Koresh and his followers were a dangerous cult involved in strange sex and drug practices who were preparing to slaughter their neighbors and that they immolated themselves à la Jonestown, rather than give themselves up peacefully. Nearly every element of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms' and the FBI's cover-up is exposed as fraudulent and the viewer is left wondering when, if ever, justice will finally be served. Warning: There are a few minutes of extremely graphic footage of the burnt bodies of the Davidians; though this is sickening, it seems less so than the tragic mistakes made by law enforcement officials. --Rob Lightner..........Product Description Nominated for an Academy Award for Best Documentary, this controversial feature chronicles the 1993 stand-off in Waco, Texas, between the Branch Davidian cultists led by David Koresh and federal agents from the FBI and ATF. Director William Gazecki uses interviews and footage from congressional hearings and newsreels to examine the events that led to more than 80 deaths. 136 min. Standard; Soundtrack: English; bonus footage; theatrical trailer........Available on wwwamazoncom

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  • StRFebruary 13, 2013 - 9:22 am

    See Waco, Oklahoma Federal Buiulding, Elian Gonzalez deported to cuba, the first Trae Center bombing (which was set up by our own intel and FBI) all on the Clinton Democrat watch...THESE WERE KIND OF SHOCK TESTS TO SEE WHAT THEY COULD GET AWAY WITH, to see that we were all propagenda prepped desensitized for the planned upcoming 9/11 event.......Now 9/11 on the Republican Bush watch....Now these staged PSYOPS mass shootings, Libya illegal overthrow, Libya another country that did not attack the US. Remember 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB. See same same Dem or Repub, both work for the NEW WORLD ORDER, Illuminati international bankers, both sides work for the Global elite ad carry out the plans of the Committee of 300.

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  • StR....Today WednesdayFebruary 13, 2013 - 9:11 am

    Infowars...On the Wednesday, February 13 edition of the Alex Jones Show, Alex talks about the media cover-up the LAPD's deliberate Waco-like torching of murder suspect and former cop Chris Dorner. He also talks about Obama's State of the Union address, his proposal for indoctrinating kids at an earlier age, and his plan to impose even more unconstitutional executive orders on the American people. He also takes your calls on today's worldwide broadcast.

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  • StR CA needs to fight CARB and Cap and TradeFebruary 13, 2013 - 9:35 am

    Mrs Plowman and I were both on the Solano Republican Central Committee and we disagree on whether 9/11 was an inside job, BUT....Betty does a superb job of trying to fight the CARB and Cap and Trade issues...these are big job destroyers for CA. Google....Only CARB Can Get Away with The Term "Leakage" for Job Destruction Written by Betty Plowman.... Wednesday, 03 October 2012 10:25....California Construction Trucking Association. The topic of the new CARB regulations deserves as much news coverage as it can get...more punitive job destroying regulations that hurt small business people....THANKS

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  • StRFebruary 13, 2013 - 11:30 am

    Google...Deomocraticunderground..Ex-Stasi Spy Chief Markus Wolf Hired By Homeland Security? ..........Political analyst Al Martin, who has in the past proven accurate in getting ahead of the news curve, is reporting that Homeland Security have hired former Stasi head, the 'Silver Fox' Markus Wolf....... Martin states,... "Wolf is the man that effectively built the East German state intelligence operation’s internal directorate," Martin continues. "He turned half the population into informants. That is his specialty, is taking a population, constructing the various state divisions, mechanisms of control, in order to organize informants within the population. That is his real specialty. And that is precisely, as Primakov has intimated, why Wolf is being brought in. The regime knows that once all of Patriot II is in law and they begin working on Patriot III, they will then begin to establish the internal mechanism to coordinate, as an official function of state, a system of informants. Wolf’s speciality was to turn East Germany into the greatest and most efficient informant state ever created."........... On a radio appearance earlier today Martin stated that the admission that Wolf would be hired was made in a BBC radio interview given by the former head of the KGB, General Yevgeni Primakov............

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  • Happy Valentines Day....kiss...kissFebruary 14, 2013 - 7:53 am

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-xRMw0NyW0

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  • Today on ThursdayFebruary 14, 2013 - 9:14 am

    wwwinfowarscom....wwwprisonplanet.tv....On the Thursday, February 14 edition of the Alex Jones Show, Alex analyzes the attempts by police to cover up their absurd razing of a cabin reportedly containing suspected murderer Christopher Dorner. Alex will also break down the push for tighter gun control in various states, marking the start of a larger agenda. Coming up today, Alex will have founder, editor and CEO of WND Joseph Farah to discuss several of the points Obama made in his State of the Union speech, the latest “watergate,” and the complete economic takeover of the country. We'll also hit on other important news items and take your calls.

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  • StR Hmmmmmmm So....February 14, 2013 - 10:11 am

    A lot of you do not want to know the truth............because they RECEIVED NOT THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness........IT IS ALWAYS A MISTAKE NOT TO SEEK THE TRUTH

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  • StR Today Friday on...February 15, 2013 - 9:13 am

    wwwinfowarscom..wwwprisonplanet.tv....On the Friday, February 15 edition of the Alex Jones Show, Alex runs down the latest on a suspected meteor that hit Russia, its possible relationship to the DA14 asteroid, and a number of wild alternative explanations and hypotheses, including “kinetic bombardment” weaponry aimed at Russia by the United States. Alex also analyzes the latest Department of Homeland Security ammo purchase and tackles the latest news. On today's worldwide broadcast, Alex welcomes an internationally recognized authority on China and population issues, as well as an acclaimed author and speaker, Steven W. Mosher. Mosher is the president of the Population Research Institute and the author of the best-selling A Mother’s Ordeal: One Woman’s Fight Against China’s One-Child Policy.

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  • StRFebruary 15, 2013 - 9:37 am

    Check out wwwpoporg

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  • Let's have a tipple to this! ....CheersFebruary 16, 2013 - 6:56 pm

    We shall be Conservative, in all cases where we think Conservatism essential to the public good;—and we shall be Radical in everything which may seem to us to require radical treatment and radical reform. We do not believe that everything in Society is either exactly right or exactly wrong;—what is good we desire to preserve and improve;—what is evil, to exterminate, or reform.

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  • Today Sunday on........February 17, 2013 - 3:04 pm

    wwwinfowarscom...wwwprinsonplanettv.........On this groundbreaking Sunday, February 17, 2013 edition, Alex Jones examines how payroll tax increases and other measures are being used by design to contract the economy and implode the western standard of living, under Agenda 21. Secretary General of the 1992 Rio conference Maurice Strong made this clear when he stated, "Isn’t the only hope for this planet that the industrialized civilization collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?” In other news, Alex covers the aftermath of DA-14, as Russia recovers from the damage caused by a suspected meteor that hit while an asteroid passed closely by Earth. The gun control agenda is also moving forward, with multiple states introducing legislation to confiscate firearms and ban semi-automatic weapons, clips and ammo. Your calls and comments are welcome.

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  • StR .. Take back the country by CountiesFebruary 17, 2013 - 3:34 pm

    How many counties are there in the United States?.............. There are 3,141 counties and county equivalents in the 50 States and the District of Columbia. They are categorized as follows:........ 3,007 counties... 16 Boroughs in Alaska.. 11 Census Areas in Alaska (for areas not organized into Boroughs by the State)... 64 Parishes in Louisiana... 42 Independent Cities (1 in Maryland, 1 in Missouri, 1 in Nevada, and the remainder in Virginia)... 1 District - the Federal District or District of Columbia.... This does not include Commonwealths and territories with what are generally county equivalents, which are as follows:.......... 78 Municipalities in Puerto Rico... 2 Districts in the U.S. Virgin Islands... 9 Election Districts in Guam... 17 Districts in the Northern Mariana Islands and... 5 Districts in American Samoa............Do we have Constitutional Sheriffs and police forces in each county? What about Solano County what stance will our Sheriff's Dept take towards Federal Gun Confiscation?....What about the State Patrols and the National Guard Commanders in each State. Also a good question for the State Governors and State Legislatures. I guess we know the answer here in California, the Legislature is for disarming the citizens of CA.

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  • StRFebruary 17, 2013 - 3:48 pm

    Google...June 07, 2009 FEMA Web Page Shows Martial Law Exercise With Foreign Troops.....Target Freedom

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  • White WeddingFebruary 17, 2013 - 4:12 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9j6DE6RnSk

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  • StRFebruary 17, 2013 - 4:28 pm

    Check out how many hedge fund managers are on the Forbes 400.

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  • StR An Interesting StudyFebruary 17, 2013 - 4:45 pm

    Sihr Islamic Black Magic relative to the Muslim Brotherhood, Sufi black magic practices, and Masonic practices. See bascially they are calling on demon spirits and they all serve Lucifer.

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  • StRFebruary 17, 2013 - 4:49 pm

    Google...Qabalah, Freemasonry, the Tijaniyah Order, the Muslim Brotherhood (but remember 911 was an inside job). or google sihr muslim brotherhood

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  • StRFebruary 17, 2013 - 5:11 pm

    You see the interconnectedness of Qabalah Jewish magic and Sihr Arabic magic, in that some of the original Jewish people were chasing after the Arabic Demon/gods in the Bible. When the Jewish people were carried off to Babylon, those that did not return to Jerusalem adopted some of the Arab magic practices. So you see at the evil top the intent is just evil, to have people kill each other in the mideast. The evil Arab forces combine with some evil Jewish forces. But remember this is only the people at the evil top...not your ordinary citizen that creates all the turmoil, death and destruction. All I am saying is that evil combines with evil irregardless of nationality or supposed religion.

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  • StRFebruary 17, 2013 - 5:17 pm

    And money is the root of all evil...so follow the money.

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  • Mike kirchubelFebruary 17, 2013 - 5:50 pm

    StR, you do realize that the Jews predate the Moslems by a couple thousand years, dont you?

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  • StRFebruary 17, 2013 - 9:16 pm

    The point is that whatever they call themselves, whatever genetics they have or religion they claim to be they really serve the Luciferian/Satanic purpose. So the Illuminati is not just white, Jewish, or Opus Dei/P2/Catholic. The people in China doing the forced abortions and profiting from the new Capitalism there are part of it too. It is international in scope, setting the entire world up to fight each other. Part of the purpose is to kill as many Christians and true Jewish people as possible along with deceiving the rest of the population from being saved by a belief in Jesus.

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  • StRFebruary 17, 2013 - 9:41 pm

    But yes for example the Babylonians eventually spoke Arabic, then qualifying as Arabs, who eventually became Muslim. But like I said there are some high up of all nationalies, supposed religions or communist atheists that really know who they are serving and it is the Luciferian New World Order. Just like the Bushes pretended to be Christians and Bill Clinton carrying around a Bible for awhile and supposedly running to a Church for forgiveness.

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  • StRFebruary 17, 2013 - 11:59 pm

    NEW YORK -- Billionaire investor Warren Buffett is dipping into the ketchup business as part of $23.3 billion deal to buy the Heinz ketchup company............ H.J. Heinz Co. says it's the largest deal ever in the food industry. The company, based in Pittsburgh, also makes Classico spaghetti sauces, Ore-Ida potatoes and Smart Ones frozen meals........ Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway and its partner on the deal - 3G Capital, the investment firm that bought Burger King in 2010 - say Heinz will remain headquartered in Pittsburgh. Heinz CEO William Johnson said in a statement that the company "will have an opportunity to drive further growth" as a private enterprise..........

    Reply | Report abusive comment
.

Solano News

David Grant doctor’s mission continues

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Chamber PAC draws candidates to Jelly Belly

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Damaged dog gets going-away party after getting healthy

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Suisun City slaying suspect case moves forward

By Amy Maginnis-Honey | From Page: A4

Touro University to host Zombie Run/Walk

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Land trust organizes Rockville Trails Preserve hike

By Barry Eberling | From Page: A4

 
Police enlist help to find armed bandit

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Chamber to host Suisun City candidates night

By Ian Thompson | From Page: A5

 
 
 
Suisun police to host medication take-back

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Coastal Cleanup Day targets local waterways

By Barry Eberling | From Page: A6 | Gallery

 
Judge questions juror in Calkins case

By Barry Eberling | From Page: A6

Drama reigns supreme with week’s film debuts

By Amy Maginnis-Honey | From Page: A7

 
Anti-drug programs face funding shortfall

By Ryan McCarthy | From Page: A8

 
Fairfield police log: Sept. 15, 2014

By Susan Hiland | From Page: A12

Suisun City police log: Sept. 15, 2014

By Susan Hiland | From Page: A12, 1 Comment

 
Suisun City police log: Sept. 14, 2014

By Susan Hiland | From Page: A12

Suisun City police log: Sept. 13, 2014

By Susan Hiland | From Page: A12

 
Fairfield police log: Sept. 13, 2014

By Susan Hiland | From Page: A12

Fairfield police log: Sept. 14, 2014

By Susan Hiland | From Page: A12

 
Weather for Sept. 17, 2014

By Daily Republic | From Page: B14

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US / World

Woman in wildfire’s path lost almost everything

By The Associated Press | From Page: A1 | Gallery

 
Lumber town takes stock after wind-driven wildfire

By The Associated Press | From Page: A1 | Gallery

PG&E officials leave posts over improper emails

By The Associated Press | From Page: A8 | Gallery

 
Things to know about California groundwater law

By The Associated Press | From Page: A9

California drivers must give bikes 3-foot buffer

By The Associated Press | From Page: A9, 7 Comments | Gallery

 
San Francisco trying shaming for quake safety

By The Associated Press | From Page: A9

Governor signs first California groundwater rules

By The Associated Press | From Page: A9

 
Robbery suspects tried to make off with $15,600

By The Associated Press | From Page: A10

Top general: US ground troops possible in Iraq

By The Associated Press | From Page: A10 | Gallery

 
Obama: Ebola outbreak a threat to global security

By The Associated Press | From Page: A10

UN: Nearly $1 billion needed now to stop Ebola

By The Associated Press | From Page: A10

 
CDC study: Americans’ bellies are expanding fast

By The Associated Press | From Page: A10, 2 Comments | Gallery

Blacks, Hispanics have doubts about media accuracy

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School bus driver killed during safety drill

By The Associated Press | From Page: A10

Hunt on for survivalist charged in trooper killing

By The Associated Press | From Page: A10, 1 Comment

 
Afghan suicide bomber kills 3 foreign troops

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Mexico airlifts tourists after Hurricane Odile

By The Associated Press | From Page: A13

 
Ukraine lawmakers ratify landmark deal with Europe

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Iraq parliament rejects interior, defense nominees

By The Associated Press | From Page: A13, 1 Comment

 
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Opinion

 
Time for utility execs to start worrying

By Thomas Elias | From Page: A11

Editorial cartoons for Sept. 17, 2014

By Daily Republic Syndicated Content | From Page: A11

 
Climate change: Complacent vs. apocalyptic

By John M. Crisp | From Page: A11, 2 Comments

 
Column focus on campaign signs misplaced

By Letter to the Editor | From Page: A11, 13 Comments

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Living

Today in History: Sept. 17, 2014

By The Associated Press | From Page: A2

 
Community Calendar: Sept. 17, 2014

By Susan Hiland | From Page: A2

My selfish husband neglects and cheats on me. What’s next?

By Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar | From Page: B5

 
Horoscopes: Sept. 17, 2014

By Holiday Mathis | From Page: B5

All the flavors of fall in one twice-baked package

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Leave them feeling full with nutritious chia seeds

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A late summer Southern classic – tomato pie

By Elizabeth Karmel | From Page: B6

 
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Entertainment

CBS: Rihanna out of NFL telecast

By The Associated Press | From Page: A7

 
Leonardo DiCaprio named UN Messenger of Peace

By The Associated Press | From Page: A7

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Sports

Prep volleyball preview: Big goals for city teams

By Paul Farmer | From Page: B1 | Gallery

 
Raiders games are like live reruns

By Tony Wade | From Page: B1, 1 Comment

Kazmir, sloppy Athletics lose 6-3 to Rangers

By The Associated Press | From Page: B1 | Gallery

 
Armijo volleyball team falls to Vintage

By Daily Republic staff | From Page: B1

Peavy, Posey help Giants gain ground in NL West

By The Associated Press | From Page: B1 | Gallery

 
Criticism mounting for Vikings, Adrian Peterson

By The Associated Press | From Page: B2

McIlroy wins PGA player of the year award

By The Associated Press | From Page: B2

 
Grand jury to weigh case of NASCAR’s Tony Stewart

By The Associated Press | From Page: B2 | Gallery

Sacramento Kings to retire Stojakovic’s jersey

By The Associated Press | From Page: B2

 
Broncos, Seahawks top AP Pro32 before rematch

By The Associated Press | From Page: B2 | Gallery

Union appeals Ray Rice’s indefinite suspension by NFL

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Jaguars sign Rodriguez grad Jensen off practice squad

By Staff and wire reports | From Page: B2

Short stay at NASCAR’s party for AJ and Almirola

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Hindsight: a Ryder Cup tradition, like no other

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Senator ties NFL tax status to Redskins name

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DA: Josh Gordon gets probation in DWI case in NC

By The Associated Press | From Page: B2

Anheuser-Busch, McDonald’s voice NFL disapproval

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49ers defense looks to bounce back from tough day

By The Associated Press | From Page: B9 | Gallery

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Business

NASA picks Boeing and SpaceX to ferry astronauts

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Web filter lifts block on gay sites

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Alibaba risk: China’s rise leaves out investors

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Corinthian Colleges sued for predatory lending

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UPS expects to hire up to 95,000 seasonal workers

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US CEOs less optimistic about hiring, spending

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Obituaries

Minnie Watkins Dixon

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Margaret King

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Comics

Pickles

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Zits

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B.C.

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Get Fuzzy

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Peanuts

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Baldo

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Frank and Ernest

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Sudoku

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