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Where have Christian rights gone?

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From page A8 | December 28, 2013 | 32 Comments

Politically correct is the new norm, no matter if it makes sense or not. It would seem common sense has gone out of style. The latest example is what the U.S. Supreme Court did to the people of Utah, overturning the vote of the people because the court said the law violated the rights of gay people.

This reminds me of something that existed a lot of years ago. It was called fascism or Nazism, when they stepped all over the rights of people. It looks like history is starting to repeat itself.

What a group of people decide to do is their business, but I am sick and tired of a very small group of people deciding how we should think. I am tired of seeing our government patting one group of people on the back and dumping all over religious groups by taking down crosses and at the same time allowing someone else to flaunt something Christians are against.

Remember, Hitler’s SS did the same thing back in the 1930s.

It would seem the red-book readers are alive and well in our government – the ones who were too busy skipping class and holding rallies to protest what the U.S. government was doing back then.

By the actions of a few who think they know better than the rest of us, it would seem the ones being beaten by political correctness are the Christians.

Lloyd Willmschen

Fairfield

Letter to the Editor

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Discussion | 32 comments

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  • CD BrooksDecember 28, 2013 - 6:54 am

    Mr. Willmschen doesn't visit "comments." He won’t get the benefit of your response or you his, unless you write a letter to the editor.

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  • PornacDecember 28, 2013 - 8:14 am

    How small is very small?

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  • Mike KirchubelDecember 28, 2013 - 3:48 pm

    Where have Christian rights gone? Nowhere. I put up my Christian Christmas tree and my kids were visited by jolly Saint Nicholas. I put out my Christmas lights around my house with lit up Christmas candy canes. No grinches around here. Except that old sourpuss, Billo. I dont know of anyone who was not allowed to celebrate Christmas, do you?

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  • Do not B ADecember 28, 2013 - 9:27 pm

    ''Pastillum botello fartum"

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  • ?December 28, 2013 - 9:32 pm

    Valeat quantum valere potest.....................Valete

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  • Mr. SmithDecember 28, 2013 - 3:56 pm

    Yes, Mike--Depending on the setting or venue in which the celebration should have been allowed, but was not ( because of the war on Christmas). You need to get out more.

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  • The SugarJarDecember 28, 2013 - 4:04 pm

    @Mr. Smith, please share.

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  • Mr. SmithDecember 28, 2013 - 4:29 pm

    TSJ: News stories of anti-Christmas actions on the part of various overly PC school administrators are abundant during each Christmas season. This is just one example, there are others. The "holiday tree" issue by the governor of a northeastern state (can't bring which one to mind right now); you don't need to go out of your way to become aware of these instances. I don't. I do, however, expect it every year. Surely you have some idea yourself. Are you challenging my premise vis-a-vis Mike's post?

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  • Mr. SmithDecember 28, 2013 - 4:52 pm

    (CNN) -- No Christmas is complete without a war on Christmas, and this year it's being fought on several fronts. NPR reported the White House attacking Republican intransigence over the debt talks in a report with a section titled "The Holiday Season is No Time to Threaten Middle-Class Pocketbooks." That prompted the Daily Caller to respond with the headline, "Disagreeing with Obama can ruin Christmas, says White House report." In the eyes of some liberals, the Republicans have become the party of the Grinch. This must be news to conservatives who have always insisted that it's the Democrats who want to steal Christmas. To them, the war is being waged by liberal secularists against patriotic American Christians who want to celebrate the holiday loudly and publicly in the way Baby Jesus intended. Pat Robertson has hit out at those "miserable" atheists and Fox News has gone after Rhode Island Gov. Lincoln Chafee for deciding not to host a Christmas tree lighting ceremony. Timothy Stanley In other words, although the war on Christmas phenomenon might have something to do with rising unbelief among Americans, more likely it reflects growing partisanship among politicians. In an age when nothing is so sacred it can't be used to hurt a political opponent, Christmas is one more weapon that statesmen and stateswomen can use against each other. But the meaning of the war on Christmas is actually bigger than partisan tomfoolery and isn't limited to right-wing fantasy, either. Some of it exposes genuine tensions within American politics and society. Take the decision of the Santa Monica City Council to end the tradition of erecting nativity scenes or other displays in Palisades Park. The right to display a scene was hitherto decided by lottery, and the previous winter season atheists won 11 out of 14 spaces, which they used to erect enormous critiques of Christianity. Become a fan of CNNOpinion Stay up to date on the latest opinion, analysis and conversations through social media. Join us at Facebook/CNNOpinion and follow us @CNNOpinion on Twitter. We welcome your ideas and comments. In response, locals lobbied the council to establish stricter guidelines about who could take part. The council decided that would be discriminatory, but it also didn't want to leave the system open to abuse by more offensive groups like neo-Nazis. So it decided the displays would have to stop altogether. That decision was upheld in November by a federal judge. The local secularists were thrilled. "The free thinkers ... played the game of the religionists and they outsmarted them," Annie Laurie Gaylor told the Huffington Post. "They showed the Christian people of the city what it feels like to have a public park promoting views that offend your personal conscience. These views were on public property that were supposed to be owned equally by everyone." This story is a classic example of the failure to reconcile different interests within a democratic society. Nobody involved was technically wrong. The secularist campaigners were right to say that the nativity displays should be open to everyone because they were on public land. Their Christian opponents were right to insist that anything erected to celebrate Christmas ought to give some priority to celebrating Christmas. And the council was right that, in the absence of consensus, it was better to allow no displays at all. The tragedy being that Gaylor's campaign ended up destroying a perfectly wonderful tradition in the name of fairness. And that hardly seems fair. Lighting the Capitol Christmas tree Veteran opens Santa's workshop First lady unveils Christmas decorations Watch thief steal Christmas decorations Unfortunately, Gaylor gets around almost as much as Santa Claus; now she's involved in an effort to take down a Jesus-shaped war memorial near a popular ski resort in Montana. There's a thin line between this sort of secularist activism and the politics of personal taste. In Portsmouth, New Hampshire, a jewelry shop manager called the cops on Salvation Army bell ringers because the noise was "raising her blood pressure and making her hate Christmas." In Colorado Springs, the Salvation Army was stopped from bell ringing because of a new ban on panhandling. What's really happening isn't just a targeted, political war on Christmas but a more general battle for control of what goes on in the public sphere, especially around the holidays. Undoubtedly, some of this is motivated by anti-religious secularism. But it's also the product of living in a crowded multicultural environment where everyone risks getting on each other's nerves -- and we have to find better ways of getting along. One of the reasons why "Happy Holidays" has risen in use as an alternative seasonal greeting to "Merry Christmas" is simply that it helps avoid occasions of offense and confrontation.

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  • Mr. SmithDecember 28, 2013 - 5:10 pm

    Perhaps the use of the term "war" is too emotionally charged, and causes a over-reaction in the minds of those who, for whatever reason, reject the notion that there is a trend in this country to secularize the Christmas season and eliminate references to "Christmas" in the public arena. Fine. Let's agree that it is a little over the top. However to those that vehemently deny that there is a very real anti-Christmas trend in America, I say get your heads out of it.

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  • rlw895December 29, 2013 - 4:49 am

    Mr.S: I'm glad you withdrew the "war" metaphor. Part of the trend is not that people are anti-Christian, it's that fewer care to defend Christianity politically. And that's good. Because rather that use the word "defend," I would substitute "advocate." Would you agree that makes all the difference?

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  • The SugarJarDecember 28, 2013 - 6:18 pm

    @Mr. Smith, if it is a public school, might be appropriate. Occasionally, people believe that acknowledging there are those who believe other than they do, takes away from their experience. schools should be particularly sensitive to the diversity of their population. My preference is inclusiveness, hopefully in a way that does not denigrate the other party's experience. i like it when other share their holidays. I hope that you had a very Merry Christmas with those you love.

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  • Mr. SmithDecember 28, 2013 - 6:53 pm

    TSJ: Is there a "Festivus" in our future? If so, who among us is excluded, in order to "include" all the others?

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  • Mr. SmithDecember 28, 2013 - 7:55 pm

    TSJ: Wishing you and yours the same.

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  • Mr. SmithDecember 29, 2013 - 8:18 am

    RLW: Yes it does, and unfortunately we have seen a politicizing of the issue to boot.

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  • rlw895January 08, 2014 - 2:30 pm

    Too many people think advocating a secular government is to advocate non-religion. It's not; it's to respect freedom of belief. IMO, secularism trumps all religious arguments against any government action. If the action has a legitimate secular purpose, it does not violate the free exercise law of the 1st Amendment. The Supreme Court has spit hairs over the issue for years and should quit: Secular purpose wins.

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  • CD BrooksJanuary 08, 2014 - 6:56 pm

    Religious history has left a long-standing stain. There is no legitimate argument without law. My theories on this subject and where they are going is incontrovertible. Enjoy the beating, I shall revel.

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  • Mr. SmithJanuary 08, 2014 - 7:48 pm

    CD: "Religious history" and world history are one and the same. Much of what we call "the law" is based upon religious tenets--whether you like it or not.

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  • CD BrooksJanuary 09, 2014 - 6:16 am

    Mr. Smith, that is a sad and pathetic statement for this planet yet you are accurate in recognizing it. As I've stated repeatedly over the years, The Conservatives in America are using religion to take us back hundreds of years. Watch as they implode while trying to force that upon clear thinking Americans. Enjoy the show. I will.

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  • Google...January 09, 2014 - 7:12 am

    CDC: U.S. Fertility Rate Hits Record Low for 2nd Straight Year; 40.7% of Babies Born to Unmarried Women January 8, 2014 cnsnewscom.................The percentage of American babies born to unmarried mothers has more than doubled since 1980. That year, only 18.4 percent of the babies born in the United States were born to unmarried mothers......Well, does this show make U Happy CD....This is what happens when you take God and morality out of the picture.....Please look at the entire article....Thanks.....PS In many respects the non-Christians do take from the Christians in that a higher percentage of Christians have more stable families and support these families, while being taxed for welfare support of these illegitimate children, and paying for law enforcement to cope with the results of fatherless children growing up to commit crimes, having lack of job skills ect......and I have every right to say this, cause I am a Bustard myself and have no idea what growing up in a proper family would be like and I know it has definitely impacted my life.

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  • rlw895January 09, 2014 - 7:48 am

    Mr.S: The law predates religion. Religion didn't invent it.

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  • U Heathen U rlw U.....I most certainly agree w/you...IFJanuary 09, 2014 - 8:09 am

    Your law is...Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law.....yes this pretty much predates everything, in that the snake told Eve she could disobey and do as she pleased, that she could be her own god.....From now on I will refer to you as rlw Attila the Hun, Godless Mercenary of Liberalism....see Heathens always end up riding roughshod over everyone, collecting skulls as they go.

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  • The Most Evil Men In History- rlw The HunJanuary 09, 2014 - 8:18 am

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVspjo22a5Y

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  • And his Army got sick in more ways than one....January 09, 2014 - 8:43 am

    Book Suggestion....Germs, Genes, and Civilization: How Epidemics Shaped Who We are Today (Ft Press Science Series) [Hardcover] David P. Clark

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  • rlw895January 09, 2014 - 9:21 am

    Well let me clarify then. What we now call religious law predated religion. It very well be that religion was invented to codify and enforce the law, rather than the law being derived from religion. It's a nice story that God handed down the law through Moses, but we don't know how much of that is metaphor. My guess is every tribe in existence has some sort of law for peaceful coexistence and interdependence. Some built religions around that law, or brought the law into a religion that started for some other reason, such as to explain the universe around its people.

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  • Mr. SmithJanuary 09, 2014 - 10:01 am

    RLW: I don't think that is what I said in my post. My main point was to opine that the history of the world and the history of religion (in that world) are inseparable. I do not believe that religion "invented" the law as we know it, so you and CD can relax and cut me some slack.

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  • CD BrooksJanuary 09, 2014 - 10:12 am

    Mr. Smith, please do not take my comments personally. I had a friend ask me one time if I was drowning would I like someone to throw me a rope? Of course he was suggesting I accept his religious views. I believe you folks are drowning and I'm playing devil's advocate providing information for you to consider. I believe you're a cool guy, but like many others here, we just don't agree politically or on religion.

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  • Mr. SmithJanuary 09, 2014 - 2:26 pm

    It's all good CD. I think a lot of us participate here to ward off alzheimer's. I know I do. Gotta use it or, uh, .............zzzzzzz!

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  • rlw895January 11, 2014 - 10:07 pm

    Mr.S: I was commenting on your other point: "Much of what we call 'the law' is based upon religious tenets--whether you like it or not." A lot more law is based on secular needs in the modern world. The "old law" you may have been referring to has origins lost to memory. My point is it didn't start with "religious tenets." The law came first. Religion adopted those laws, just as Christianity adopted pagan holidays for its own.

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  • rlw895January 09, 2014 - 9:14 am

    I meant free exercise "clause," not "law." Last I heard, some justices are with me on this, including Scalia. It's just a matter of time.

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  • SavetheRepublicJanuary 09, 2014 - 10:40 am

    Scalia goes Duck Hunting with Dick Cheney ( Google it )....They are all evil, they hate Christianity....Believe me WE CHRISTIANS are the ones in Danger in this country....Do not believe anything the top Government officials say and do sometimes they posture themselves to look good, but are evil.

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  • rlw895January 09, 2014 - 12:08 pm

    Scalia is a Roman Catholic in good standing and one of the most conservatively religious members of the Court. But he's finding these free exercise clause cases impossible.

    Reply | Report abusive comment
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